Today I attempted to connect with other unschoolers on an email list and was told that since Jesse went to Kindie (his choice; I SO TRIED to talk him out of it) I couldn’t call myself an unschooler for this and many other reasons. Honestly, I don’t really care for labels. I was, however, looking for support and made a poor choice to look where I did. Apparently.
I had a long talk with the boys about the academia we are starting to delve into, having never had any formal schooling, and they are enjoying the ride. Well, the ride so far has been incredibly easy and we only do that which they have chosen and decided they want to do. Pike is interested in honing his mad speling skilz, math, writing, reading and art. Jesse is not loving the idea of writing (which to me is so ironic because I think he has a real gift waiting to be discovered), but enjoys math, reading and Spanish. He has decided to try the Art stuff I bought but will probably bow out. So, we’re heading off to curriculm land where Sonlight will still rule the base of our daily flow. I’m sticking with 1+2 for the girls and will go with Core 6 for the boys. Jesse says he likes learning about new math concepts but (this is where he really shows his healthy self-esteem) it doesn’t do anything for a sense of self-achievement or satisfaction. Pike says he gets a real feeling of achievement from the math and writing. Since all we’re doing right now is math, writing (once a week) and me reading to them nightly, it hasn’t been a huge change in routine. As per usual though, Runescape is providing their best education. Jesse says he is really noticing punctuation and asked today if quotes could indicate sarcasm and can really see the unimaginable concept of a million (since he has something like 6.5 million GP). So, if you’d like to personally come down and collect my unschooling membership card, can you bring some curriculum with you?
We have a backyard that backs up to a jungle so why am I surprised to find a family of snakes living in the bushes? Jamie, the boys and I watched them the other day and then employed Dr. Google to figure out what they were. Other than the fact that they were trying to get INTO the recamera (the doors are now duct-taped shut) we’re ok with them. They seem to tunnel down though and one was trying to dig a tunnel (snakes dig a tunnel with their heads) right next to the door. Little creepy.
Jody requested a budget post, so here is my attempt. When we first started traveling i looked around the blogoshere and found a couple who had planned on spending $40 a day average to stay on budget. I figured out that $100 a day for our famiy would be about what we were already spending in a stick home and we strove for that. i kept track of expenses in Notepad and kept a running average. As long as we were under $100 for the average, I was fine.
When we decided we wanted to stay out on the road longer than a year, I decided I’d need something better than Notepad and stole acquired Excel. I just found out I have Office 2003 around and should upgrade poor little Excel 97 which won’t even install anymore. Spreadsheets made it easier to track and now I had a year of data I could use to create a budget. We weren’t really strict with the budget (as you can tell from some months) but generally came even on a yearly basis. This year I really wanted to get serious with the budget and even cut $5000 from our operating expenses. That has made it more dirricult but I still think the numbers are achievable. Jamie would probably disagree. He HATES the idea of limiting spending.
For me, the first step is determining what is a need and what is a want. For example, we must have some means to obtain purified water. We cannot drink from the tap. So a dispenser of some kind is a necessity. it could be a 3 peso pump thingie but we soon found, by the limitations of all designs, that it would leak and we would waste water. It was also very difficult to use and the kids would dump water. So a cheap solution but not effective. At the other end of the scale, most people here in PaaMul have fancy water dispensers that dispense hot and cold water. I can’t think of anything more lovely than a cold glass of water on a typical day down here. They are pricey though, at $2000+ pesos. I figured that we could buy a sack of ice at the restaurant (local) each and every day, and it would take us 3 YEARS to come to 1/2 the cost of the dispenser and by that time the dispenser would have rusted and need to be replaced. We found some $70 peso dispensers which can sit on the counter, not leak, dispense water and buy ice if we want cold water.
It is easier for me to stick to a budget because I don’t see it as a deprivation. I’m very conscious of conspicious consumption (thanks to my Dad!) and we’ve never been terribly materialistic. When I decide I don’t want to spend money on something and can do without or do with lesser, I see it as a positive - we’re able to spend money somewhere else or save money towards something (debt, treat, emergency fund, etc.) so there is no deprivation involved.
I’ll proofread and maybe add more tomorrow, but if I don’t get this out tonight (well it is 12:37am) it may leak out my brain and be lost forever.
12 responses so far ↓
1 Jonna // Aug 2, 2008 at 1:52 am
I’d be lying if I didn’t say that I think unschooling is a bad idea. You have incredibly smart, interesting, involved kids and in my mind, they deserve a chance to excel at learning. I wonder though, if they only have to learn what they want to learn, if they won’t miss one of the major lessons of schooling. You sometimes have to knuckle down and grind through things, even ‘gasp’ just memorize them, in order to get to the more interesting and fun parts of knowledge. In fact, learning to do that, to discipline yourself to do something that is not fun and not enjoyable but will give you long term benefits, just may be the most important lesson. So, will they lose interest and quit when it gets hard or will they have a contract of some sort that says they have to finish what they start? I think that is the root of the issue.
2 jody // Aug 2, 2008 at 6:11 am
Awesomeness. Quinn is still on 1+2. It is sooooo interesting, we stretched it out to last 1 1/2 years. We ordered some extras to really dig into Mesopotamia. He is still using Saxon math, but doesn’t enjoy it much. Will switch that in January.
I think today is “Box Day” for Mia…her Sonlight order is due to arrive. She is doing the Kinder world history, Hooked on Phonics, and Apologia science with Quinn (Flying Creatures of the 5th Day). For writing, they will be both keeping a daily journal about the science stuff.
I looked at my Pear budget, and decided to keep going with what I have for a few more months, then re-assess the numbers. Groceries have been an issue. It is easy to spend $300 a week here, and that is just too too much. I will be trying to cut it back to $200/week this month.
3 Mamahops // Aug 2, 2008 at 9:22 am
You see, Jonna, this is where you are RONG RONG RONG RONG RONG!
My kids excel at learning because they are not pressured to learn, not coerced to do anything schooly. I think there are two basic ideas that you kind of have to accept (but have been proven in our household over time). Kids are naturally curious and will WANT to learn. You can see that right now with the girls - they are constantly drawing, writing, “reading”, doing math in their head, asking us what different sums and multiplications end up to be, how to spell this or that - they don’t need to be sat down and forced to write or manipulated to do more. They like to hear books on subjects from Greece to dogs. They will listen to subjects some would consider “over their heads”. The only way you can stifle a kids learning is to force it.
Second, kids will listen to logic. When you treat them in a respectful and non-coercive manner, they will consider and make sound judgements. I expressed to the boys my concerns that constant computer play (which was begun slowly, over the last couple months) was going to dull their minds. I’m not sure about this. There are many families where kids play computer games for years, come out of their room one day and enter college, mastering Calculus and a foreign language in a month. And this is where I branch off from the real unschoolers. I’m not willing to take the chance that my kid won’t have had a sound foundation in the 3 R’s by the time they came out of the room. There are Very Very Many families that this has not been an issue in. The kid one day decides he wants ‘X” and within a month they’re doing X. I know it is very possible because the boys are learning punctuation from playing Runescape (computer internet game) but I want to expose them to more.
Unschooling works exceptionally well - especially if you’re in an environment where you can expose your kids to a wide variety of ideas, concepts, philosophies, other kids, classes, mentors, etc. Here it isn’t working so well so we’ll expose through traditional means. The kids are very open to trying and will push through difficulties without the need for me to push them. I encourage but I do not force because they can decide on their own if the payoff is worth it.
I don’t think we’ll ever agree with the path we’ve taken to raise our own kids and I’m certainly not trying to convince you that mine is right. It is definitely right for my kids and my family but I would never presume to say you are wrong because each family is different and each family has its own journey to travel. I really do value your input and opinion and I hope you understand I’m simply sharing from my side.
Now, how about we talk about Wayne’s penis?
4 Mamahops // Aug 2, 2008 at 9:30 am
Groceries are the hardest area for us. What REALLY helps is to 1) make a menu, 2) make a list for that menu, 3) go to the store and either be able to take advantage of sales and create a new menu in your head and items for that menu in your head and take advantage of the sales or Stick To The List Without Exception and 4) double batch cook. When we lived in a stick house I used to make 2 meals for every meal I cooked and froze the 2nd meal if the meal lent itself to freezing. That way I NEVER had a “go to the store and buy anything for dinner cause I can’t think of a thing to cook” day. Well, I still did, but it was because I didn’t follow my rule above. Some families do the “if it is Wednesday, it must be meatloaf” thing. I rebel at the very thought but that is the rebel-at-anything-conventional side of me. We still go overbudget in groceries (but for us it is households that kill me) because the person cooking isn’t making either a list or a menu. I think that if you start making a list and ONLY buy off the list, you’ll be shocked at how much you save.
I also throw at least one meal a week into the menu that is new and different. I also make sure the kids have meals they adore or a backup of PB&J if they don’t.
Is that more helpful?
5 Mamahops // Aug 2, 2008 at 11:55 am
Eeep, that last comment was to Jody. AND speaking to curriculum, I think that *I* am much more excited about learning stuff this year than I should be.
I get SO MUCH out of the books I’m reading to the kids and even learned how to use an abacus yesterday when Jesse called me over while he was doing his math lesson. We plan to make an abacus today.
So, we’re doing Ancient Cultures this year and it is perfect after a year of World Cultures (that, to be honest, we are STILL finishing up). But I also have to admit that I mixed up some of the SL 6 core with SL 5 core and I’m actually reading SL 6 readers with the SL 5 history, ack. It all works though.
We’re doing SL 6 with the boys, SL 1+2 with the girls as they’ll listen in on the SL 6 stuff also. We have a LOT of SL 1+2 left over, so that should work well, but I’m also going to be looking for more Ancient Culture books written to their level for them. Because you can never have too many books. I think I’ll go back over Core 1 and Core 2 and see if I want to order anything else - I really think this is easy to stretch to a 2 year program, especially since it is a combination of two years, and really who cares how long it takes as long as we’re having fun. I honestly don’t think you can take too long to dwell on Ancient Cultures and World History.
Girls are doing Singapore 1A and 1B (and I have 2A through 3B on tap if they find they’re flying through 1A and 1B). Boys are doing Teaching Textbooks 7 and Life of Fred Fractions and Decimals.
The boys and I have been doing the Bravewriter program and I personally, am enjoying their musings and returning to mad ritin skilz. The girls have been doing “copywork” forever as they are in the peak of the writing phase that all my kids have gone through. I’m also thinking of Writing Strands 3 and 4 and maybe 1 and 2 for the girls for more writing ideas.
Jesse wants to learn Spanish and Latin and I just really need to kick myself in the ass and speak Spanish much more frequently. I VERY frequently remember at the END of the day (crap! I should have spoken Spanish today). Ellen is LOVING the days I speak Spanish also and Sissy is very Spanish-intuitive so I really need that kick. I learned Spanish “off the street” and have no idea how to implement a formal approach so I think the OPOL method will probably be just as effective as formal study.
We’re doing the TOPS science experiments and Ellen LOVES reading various Usborne science books we already have. We’ll have to see how the boys respond to the Chemistry and Physics we’ll cover in the TOPS series before decide what, if anything else, I’ll get for them.
To round everything out, I am REALLY excited about Artistic Pursuits and we’re finding that we might have a source for materials right here in town. Jesse isn’t interested in the hands-on aspects of our art program but is willing to listen in and see if anything piques his interest.
6 papa // Aug 2, 2008 at 2:18 pm
What is Kindie? Kindergarden?
love, papa
PS> Does unschooling mean you don’t know how to spell? (running and ducking….
Even when YOU were not unschooled? (running and ducking even faster ::))
7 Aunt Kathy // Aug 2, 2008 at 3:01 pm
I don’t know who actually writes the computer games today, but I certainly hope they aren’t letting the software engineers put the wording in. After working with engineers and proofreading their writing, I can guarantee they are not good examples from which to learn grammar.
It will be interesting to see if any learning attitudes change as the kids get further into their teen years.
I am sending positive thoughts your way that all continues to go well.
Do the kids want to learn spoken Spanish (Mexican) or spoken European Spanish? Are they interested in grammar as well? We have some CD’s for learning spoken European Spanish if you want them.
Love,
Aunt Kathy
8 Bob Collier // Aug 3, 2008 at 4:16 am
Perhaps your “membership card” situation is another indication that it’s time to dump the term “unschooling”. It seems to so often confuse more than it clarifies.
I’m frequently referred to as an “unschooler”, even a “radical unschooler” because my 12 year old son (who quit school at the age of 7) does whatever he likes (in every area of his life) and gets most of his education from videogames, TV and the internet. But I’ve never used the term “unschooling” myself. I refer to my son as “self-educated” (for people who can’t handle that, “self-educated under my supervision”). I also have a 23 year old always schooled daughter with three university degrees (who was also, incidentally, allowed to do whatever she liked). So I’m not necessarily anti-school. Definitely not anti-education!
The fact is, my son is out of school not because of what my wife and I believe about education but because of what we believe about parenting.
Now that being taught at the speed of watching paint dry is far behind him and he so enjoys learning at the speed of thought, I think it’s highly unlikely he would ever be interested in ’school culture’ again, but he’s definitely becoming more interested in structured and even pre-organised learning and I think that’s a perfectly natural development.
For me, it’s about self-motivated learning. Whatever form it takes. I kind of cringe, to be honest, when I read of unschoolers who believe it isn’t unschooling if it looks like something you would find in a school classroom.
9 RiverGirl // Aug 3, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Traditional schools did not serve me well. So I completely sympathize and appreciate what you are doing. I didn’t do well in school until I entered college at age 15. Then I was happy with my learning environment. I was finally challenged.
School often holds back the bright kids. If they can learn at their own pace they will often end up having much more depth in a subject than they would had they been in a classroom with a bunch of other kids of differing abilities.
I am certain that your kids are getting a better education than my daughter was getting from the International American School in Cancun. She was bored silly there. She had 3 or 4 excellent teachers there and numerous bad ones who just made her miserable. On balance it just wasn’t right for her to be there. Too much elitism and snobbishness and not enough learning.
I’ve always thought I should take more responsibility for my daughter’s learning but I don’t have the mindset for that. Fortunately she’s been lucky enough to attend a couple of good schools, and is now in a REALLY GOOD school back in Colorado. The kids’ learning is very self-directed and there are no grades given. I’m very happy with her school now.
Keep up the good work. What you are giving your kids is priceless and will serve them well for the rest of their lives.
If your kids are on the computer too much you might encourage them to download Alice:
http://www.alice.org/ It’s an environment for programming that makes it easy for upcoming computer nerds to learn to program.
And why are you fighting with old versions of Excel when you could download Open Office??
10 Janet // Aug 5, 2008 at 6:50 pm
Kathy,
You are wrong ……snakes at the door are WAY CREEPY!
11 jody // Aug 6, 2008 at 10:15 am
Awesome comments.
I am nodding my head big time. Kids just sort of do what needs to be done on their own. I am watching Mia do the same thing your girls are doing and it stuns me how much she is learning on her own. It is priceless. Same with Quinn. We follow the schedule a bit, but on our own time, if that makes sense…..like, if he gets really into castles, we may spend forever there, and just dig deeper. He loves knights and such, so he is anxious to dive into that section.
Man, you guys have science MADE there. Reef system, ichthyology, tidal flow, etc etc. Grab some ichthyology books and put them on the shelf. The kids can ID the fish they see while snorkling etc and make a “life list” of the fish they come in contact with. You may end up with a bushel full of budding marine biologists.
The computer thing is sticky. Cory says that if we let them have unlimited time, they would grow bored with it and shut it down. The issue I have is the constant fighting over whose turn it is. Gah! It drives me nuts. So I bought an egg timer, and everyone gets an hour, then “ding” on to the next kid. They can get back on after everyone has a turn, and start over if they desire… it seems to be working so far. We also don’t bring the electronics on the boat. There is just too much to do outside and the time is so limited when we are out.
We recently found a marina south of us that we will sail to in the coming weeks and spend some time….it is fabulous, and full of sea life. All of the kids were enchanted by it. It will be a nice vacation spot within a short distance.
I have started planning my meals, and I have a list that I keep in the kitchen. We just add to it each time we need a food item, and at the end of the week I shop off the list. I’ll let you know how it works…so far, I am pretty much sticking to $200/week….I might try and trim it a bit, but it will be tough.
The “eating out” category needs some serious trimming as well…..it might be the adult beverages that drive this baby up, so in that case the budget may just need to stuff it.
12 wayne // Aug 8, 2008 at 8:08 pm
Yikes! You want to talk to Jonna about my penis!!! I am quite, quite sure that she would not be interested!
Do you read John Calypso’s blog? Vivaveracruz. They “unschooled” their son and look at him now. Still a teenager and raking in more than $100,000 a year. The program seems to work. Stick with it.
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